An EMG is extremely hideous agony

Why oh why do doctors try to "trick" you into not feeling pain by reframing it as "discomfort". Once it has been established that a procedure is agony, do me a favor, doc, and quit trying to pass it off as mild discomfort. "Now, I'm turning up the stimulation level..." "Everyone feels it just a little differently." No. If some fuckwit who isn't in pain in the first place and who is wired with magic non-pain-feeling nerves feels it "a little bit differently", I don't care. It doesn't ameliorate the bit where I'm crying in pain and telling the doctors that they're hurting me to the extreme. It doesn't calm me! It's so disrespectful.

The electric shocks to my legs, especially the already very pained leg, were agonizing and after about 10 minutes I could not help crying. From there I progressed to shaking, feeling like I was going to vomit, uncontrollable sobs and near delirium. Believe me, I tried to be tough and stoic and breathe through the pain and I got the doctors to count to three and then do the shocks. I also communicated pretty clearly that I was in pain and what level of pain it was. But several times they would go "So, of course, be sure to tell us if it's too much." (With an air of disapproval.)

I explained it would be easier for me if they would count to 3 and warn me, so I could time my breathing to exhale on the shock. But, they could not manage. They would count to 3 and then wait RND(N) seconds before the shock would come. Arrrrrrgh!

Meanwhile they went on wittering about fossa and the different nerves and wavelength and amplitude and maximal reaction, to each other, but not to me, even when I asked them to tell me because it would be a distraction. They couldn't tell me how many times they would do the shocks along a particular nerve. They'd do it and then up the "stimulation" and keep upping it until some particular wavelength happened. About an hour passed, I think.

Then we got to the part with the needles.

The first needle they stuck in the front part of my shin, up on the lateral side just under my knee, into one of the many places where I already hurt but which they had just been doing electrical shocks on. Keep in mind I have no pants on and am covered in snot and tears. Also I was in that head space where I kept apologizing to them. The needle hurt a lot and it didn't stop quickly like the electric shocks.

I tried to deal and cry through it and remind myself it was temporary and I had to endure it, but at some point, I guess the point where it was TOO MUCH, I started screaming and begging them to take the needle out. Instead they wiggled it, because that helps them get a better reading.

That was fun.

I yelled some more.

They finally took it out about a year later.

Then they said maybe we should reschedule the rest for another day, and that I should get the pain clinic to give me some sedation for it, beforehand.

WHAT? I didn't know I could be sedated for it. I guess it makes sense; they only care about the electrical impulses of the nerves or muscles or something; not whether I actually feel the pain or not.

Oh hai! You're in so much pain you've come to us in a motherfucking wheelchair, which you've been in for 6 months, and we're going to give you electric shocks on that very leg which is already in pain, and then stick needles in it and WIGGLE THE NEEDLES. But, it doesn't OCCUR to us that you might want some pain meds before doing this.

I think the nurse who came in a bit later and offered to help me get dressed was one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen... she was so glowing and lovely... and she felt actual human sympathy... and was nice... I had already managed to get my own socks on, but it was a struggle. I would happily have taken her help.

I took a bit to lie there and cry on my left side, the position that is the least painful for me and the one I'm typing in right now. So, I pulled myself together a bit, and on autopilot, left. I had come into the clinic able to walk a block or two, and aching, but not in super bad pain. Able to think and work and function. I came out of only half the EMG process barely able to put on my own socks. As I left, wheeling over the cracks in the pavement hurt. It was harder to deal with wheeling myself because my low back muscles were spasming or something was just wrong in there. But, I had to get to the pain clinic at 3:15 for these trigger point injections which they promised would be super helpful.

After a bit in the waiting room with the tweakers and vague spacebots and junkies with the complex inner elbow tattoos, I ended up on a gurney surrounded by curtains, with my pants off and a gown and (joy) a warm blanket. The doctor was one I had seen before and he was really nice. I signed some things and explained I was in a lot of pain and unsettled and a bit terrified, from the EMG that I had just had. I got some reassurance about how the needles were small and once they started injecting stuff it would help with the pain and would numb everything. "Ah! Numbing the entire painful area and interrupting the pain signal to the brain! You don't know how good that sounds!" But as the dude started poking me and drawing on me in pen to figure out where to inject, I started crying again, explaining that the poking really hurt, also, that I was just plain scared. The doctor was really nice to me again, but, when he stuck me with the needle, it killed, it burned, it ached, it felt cold and hot and super sharp all at once and I started to feel like I had to flinch, or yank away, or fucking die. I was shaking again. So, he stopped and we talked about whether to do any more or not.

Then he was like... "Wait, did you just have the EMG yesterday or something??

"No... just now... like half an hour ago. It was very horrible. And I still hurt from it."

"Oh my god. We can't do this now! You must be hurting a lot! You should have told us you just had the EMG! There's no way!"

"Half the EMG. They had to stop because I couldn't take it, and told me to ask you for sedation to do the rest."

"OMG!!!"

"Ack!"

"No wonder!"

"I know. Thanks!"

So apparently they were planning anyway to sedate me and do some kind of deep injection in the piriformis muscle right next to or around the sciatic nerve. So he said that they might as well do all the injections then while I was knocked out. That will all happen another day.

THANKS MAN. That's why they work in a pain clinic. They don't want you to suffer! They care if you suffer or not!

I recovered a bit more, drank some juice, dragged myself to my car and drove here on autopilot, with a strong heroic feeling of "I'm just barely holding it together and I can fall apart later." Zond-7 has warmed up my leg with his hands and has soothed me and made me laugh about many things and run me a hot bath and gone to get a heating pad and told me I do not have to magically bounce back in 1 hour as I keep expecting myself to do, but instead should melt down for the evening.

***

It's so helpful to complain in detail! Remember that when you hear old people talking about their operations. It restores some measure of dignity back to the soul.

I have some amazing entertainment for the evening thanks to Zond-7 and his crew, my spirits are back up, I feel more human, I'm warm and thus in less pain, and there is a new electric blanket! And a sort of leg patch thing, a giant "air activated" heating pad you crack open, that lasts 8 hours. It has the kind of adhesive that electrodes have - sticky but that doesn't hurt to peel off of skin. I like the 8-hour heating pad on the outside of my leg!

The sural nerve was unfun. The tibial nerve was much much worse. "Peroneal" was bandied about during some bad moments. We did not get up much beyond my knee, so I don't know what's next.

***
Update even later: I am still hurting, but walking a bit again. I see that truly people don't expect the nerve conduction electric shock tests to be painful. But, they were painful, very much so, for me. I put them at 8-9.5 on the Mankoski scale. It was 9+ for about the last half hour. I was incoherent, shaking, nauseous, unable to stop crying from the pain which I most definitely did not experience as being "like static electricity". I wonder if they believed me that it hurt. Also, I see that there might not be any diagnostic value to the tests. Instead, they want to complete the tests to contribute my nerve conduction, etc. results to the range of known ranges.

Comments

[Jo]

OMG! Awful! Did they learn anything, or won't you know yet? Man oh man that sounds like an ordeal.

[Lisa Hirsch]

Agony is right! I'm sorry they didn't sedate you in advance!!

What were the docs trying to find out??

[Barak]

This is from the article to which you link:

"If, for any reason, the patient cannot continue with the study, he/she should tell the examiner to stop. The information provided will help determine a diagnosis and guide the prognosis. The examiner may ask if the patient can tolerate further testing; if not, it will not continue. This information is provided in the hopes of decreasing patients' anxiety or concerns and to help explain how this test is performed, so that the entire study can be completed."

[badgerbag]

Yeah, I saw that. What is your point?

[badgerbag]

What I mean is, when I cried, said it was very painful and very difficult to bear, and that I was worried that what they were doing was going to leave me unable to walk or drive home, and kept asking how many more shocks they would have to do, they would keep saying things that denied I was in pain and then they'd say we were "almost done" and would say that they needed complete information to be able to tell anything useful.

You will note that the thing I linked to does not suggest any sort of pain meds or sedative for the tests.

Anyway, I tried to comply with the testers and to endure the pain, and when I was unable to even make an effort to hold still or to not scream, I had to stop them. Even when I asked them to stop, they kept messing with the needle to try to get one last piece of data, which was pretty annoying in retrospect.

[jess]

Fuck dude, I hate doctors (not all the time, but very frequently). It is intolerable that you told them you were in pain and they didn't care. It is even worse that you told them to stop and they didn't listen. I don't understand what its so difficult for so many doctors to understand that these are OUR bodies, that we live in them and experience them, and goddamn it, deserve to control what happens to them.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

(And I'm sorry if I'm overgeneralizing. Its just...the more I read about the medical establishment, and the more bad personal experiences like this I come across, the less I believe that doctors are trained to care about and respect their patients. :/)

[Lynn Kendall]

"Most patients don't find it painful"? On what freaking planet?

I had an EMG 14 years ago, and the very thought still makes me flinch. The doctor actually stopped it because I was in so much pain.

A couple years ago, I went with Michele to an EMG, and it was agonizing for her, even with me there to distract her and hold her hand.

Maybe they're not painful to patients who aren't having nerve issues.

[Yatima]

I'm still angry about this, a day later. I want to taser your doctors. Or tattoo on their foreheads FIRST, DO NO HARM.

[Pretty Lady]

That's really, really, really, really awful and heinous and horrible and stupid. That's fucked up. I'm really sorry you went through that.

[Melissa P.]

Your whole experience sounds awful. You poor thing. It would seem that they could offer you some pain relief or sedation for the test to be done properly and painless for you.
I hope you have a good night's sleep and feel better in the morning.

[Thida]

I'm really sorry. That sucks horrendously. I had an EMG on both wrists and it was absolutely agony. Not as bad as when Little T got stuck but only because it was a much smaller area. They run the trials on mostly healthy people. Doh!

The only good thing that came out of it was that I avoided a carpal tunnel operation. As I had been telling them all along my wrist pain is not due to my carpal tunnel compressing my nerves. It's that my nerves are very messed up from being constantly jerked around and due to my bad posture and therefore congestion in my brachioplexus. The good thing is that chiropractic has helped. A couple of my friends say this also means that my EMG thing means I'd respond well to acupuncture but I'm really quite scared of needles. Plus I already know my nervous system is messed up.

[g]

i just had an emg/ncv for crpal tunnel. i know how you felt. i am kinda glad i wasnt the only one who sobbed covered in snot. i've never been in so much pain in my entire life. i almost passed out and was shivering all over too.

hope you are doing better now.

[K]

I just had an emg/ncs too in my back and legs. I've had arm, back pain and sciatic pains in my legs from a fall >5 months ago. I have benign essential tremor (shake a lot when stressed) and told the doctor before we began. Usually have pretty good tolerance to pain, but hated the electrical shocks of the ncs. They felt like when one of the pads of the TENS unit (___ electrical nerve stimulation machine) would come loose and shock me. Can you believe we go to these things and say, "sure, I'm willing to get electrical shock treatments?" Doctor (very nice while inflicting so much pain) wasn't getting the responses he wanted, so kept moving the electrode thing around and shocking me again. Every shock, I was jumping big time, and getting more tense, and less tolerable as we went.

And if that wasn't bad enough (I foolishly tried to trick myself into thinking the worst was over) then came the EMG needles. The legs were bad enough, but then, as if to try to make me feel better, he said "we're almost done, just a couple more." THEN he stuck the needle in next to my spine and INSTANT SEVERE PAIN!!! I involuntarily jerked away. The needle came out. He said he had to replace the needle and do it again. This time in a slightly different place and I had pain gripping down the left side of my spine. "That shouldn't be hurting," he said. "It DOES!" I shouted.

After spending time sobbing in the room, I tried to collect myself and went out to the car, leaned against the seat and had immediate pain as I felt a a big, hard lump on my back by where that worse needle pain was. I thought maybe it was a hematoma (blood under the skin). Went immediately back in. They all looked confused and baffled, put ice on it. I had to wait for the doc. He looked and said it was a muscle spasm, and (I think to cover himself from liability) he said there wasn't a needle-hole there, so it wasn't where he poked me. I had others look at it at home and there was a hole right by it. I think he must have hit a nerve or something.

Test was 2 days ago. I have been a shaking mess since then. And yesterday, I went to urgent care from the nerve trauma... I was jerky, have been mentally unclear, losing words and thoughts, easily distracted, and very on edge... verbally snapping at noises and stupid things people say/do.

I want to hear about other people's experiences. In looking things up, I get angry reading sites that say there's no risk and little pain involved. I'd like to shock them about 40 times and stick a needle in their nerve and see if they then feel the same way.

I'm usually a more calm, think before you speak person. Afraid I'm a rambling angry fool at the moment. I don't like how I feel after this test at all.

Please tell me your stories. Thanks!!! (I needed this)

[Helen]

I had EMG and NCV a year ago, and up to this day I still feel the pain. It never went completely away. After the ordeal I went through (it took more than 4 hours) I had to give up my job, because the pain didn't stop after the procedure. Even a month later the pain hadn't stooped, and I lost my job. My arms and legs are still extremely sore, I can't touch them without crying. I am a nervous wreck, unable to do anything. I am traumatised for life.
Having EMG and NCV is much, much worse than being tasered. Watch the videos on YouTube about Tasering and hear the men cry out in agony. That's what nerve conducting studies mean, but they are not done once, but again and again. They did 437 shocks to my legs! I passed out several times during the procedure, but they slapped me so I became conscious again, and the pain went on. I begged them to stop, again and again, but they didn't stop.
It's the worst torture you can imagine. No prisoner is allowed to be tortured like that, but patients are tortured to the extreme. Doctors take a great pleasure in torturing their patients, that's why most of them have taken up this profession.

[Mary]

Just look at this:
Compartment Syndrome of the Forearm Following an Electromyographic Assessment
http://jhs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/full/30/6/656
A 34 year old woman underwent needle EMG because she had slight pain in her right hand. The needle was inserted too deep and the main arteria of the arm ruptured. She was operated on as an emergency. The arm had to be cut open completely and left like that for 16 days. Then it was sutured. The recovery was very slow. She never gained back the full function of her arm.

Isn't this just abominable?
Never ever let anybody do an EMG on you!!!

[Tiffany]

Hi,

it is so good that people write what an EMG is really like!
It is real torture, which far exceeds the torture they did on Guatanamo prisoners. I have had many tests done and I have had many operations, I once had to have a tooth extracted without any anesthesia, I got a gastroscopy without sedation, but that was nothing compared to the EMG, which leaves you in a state of shock for the rest of your life.
I had this procedure 18 months ago. I have severe damage to my nerves and so they didn't respond when the medical assistant applied the electric shocks. So she pushed the level of the electricity up, again and again, until she had 100mA, the highest amount the EMG machine allows. That was so bad that I cried out with pain and begged her to stop. But she said: NO. I must go on, I must get a reaction from your nerves or the doctor will be cross with me. Then she took off the security adapter and plugged the power cord of the machine directly into the power outlet. When she applied the next shock, my whole body jumped around and I cried out in agony. She went on and on and I cried until I had no more voice. My whole body shook and the pain was so absolutely abominable that I just had to vomit. She yelled at me to stop it. Tears and snot were running down my face. Again and again merciless she went on and on. I got more than 200 shocks after she had taken off the security adapter and before I had already got more than 100. Finally a doctor came in to do the needle EMG, I was hardly conscious, but he didn't say anything just started inserting needles into my tortured legs. They were as bad as the current, and when he told me to move my muscles the pain was so excruciating that I yelled. He slapped me on my face and went on inserting the needles, more than 8o0 times.
When he had finished I passed out. It was about an hour later that someone came in and yelled at me that the doctor wanted to see me and why I wasn't dressed. But I was too faint to do anything and passed out again. Finally I found myself in a wheelchair. Someone had phoned my husband to take me home.
The pain after the procedure now, 18 months later, is almost as bad as it was during the procedure. I can no longer move my legs, I am completely paralysed. My general practitioner told me that it happened in about 15% to 20% of all cases that patients are paralysed after the EMG procedure. I amcontinuously thinking of suicide. My husband gave up his job to be able to look after me, and sometimes both of us speak about ending our lives. I am 44, and my husband is 47. Fortunately we have no kids, so nobody would mind if we committed suicide.
But if my life has any sense it is to tell people how dangerous EMG and NCS are.
Mary, you are right. NOBODY SHOULD HAVE THIS PROCEDURE!
PLEASE, don't let anyone do this to you. After an EMG pain rules your life and about 20% of the people undergoing it are paralysed.

[Mandy]

Hi,

Nerve conducting studies and EMGs are simply the worst procedures a doctor can do on a patient. Most doctors don't give you any pain medication, and so you have to endure the pain. There is no other procedure that lasts as long as NCSs and EMGs, it goes on for several hours, and it is not simply discomfort, but REAL EXCRUCIATING PAIN.
I had both tests done 7 months ago, I am normally quite pain resistant, but I yelled my head off when the assistant shot the electric current through my legs. The first shots were bearable, but then she increased the shocks and I couldn't help yelling at the top of my voice. I begged her to stop but she just laughed and went on. When she had finished I vomitted and was covered in my own excrements. Then a doctor came, shouted at me to get off the bed into another one and the EMG began. The first two needles were ok, but then he inserted a needle onto my thigh with such power that I jumped up screaming. I then had to move my muscles and it was so painful that I couldn't even scream, I had no force, my whole body cramped. Have you ever had cramps in your legs? Well, then you know how painful that is. But I had cramps in every muscle of my body. The doctor didn't even notice it. Then he stuck in another needle and asked me to move the muscle, but because of the cramps I couldn't move it, so he shouted at me to do what he told me to.Finally I managed to tell him that I had cramps. He then said Just relax. But I couldn't relax. So he left the needle in and went out of the room. with the needle inside my leg I lay on the bed for about 15 minutes.Then the doctor came in again. By then some of the cramps had become better, but not all. so he went on with the procedure. He stuck in 89 needles in my arms and legs. When everything was finished I had finally and fortunately passed out. I was unconscious for about 1 hour. When I awoke I was all alone in the room. I tried to get up from the bed, but couldn't move my legs. After another hour a doctor came in and told me they hadn't found anything. I tried to dress, but it was not possible. Three hours later a cleaner came into the room, she was the only compassionate person there. She helped me get into my clothes and got a wheelchair for me. I wheeled outside and got a taxi.
I stayed in bed for more than a fortnight, writhing with pain and agony. I have regained some movements of my right leg and my right arm, but my left leg and left arm are still paralysed. Both legs and both arms have still got severe inflammation. Even steroids won't help. Another neurologist to whom my husband took me said several nerves and muscles were completely damaged. Obviously the assistant had applied too much electricity and the doctor had stuck the needles in too deep.
I have sued the assistant and the doctor, but I was told I would never succeed, because I couldn't prove they did anything wrong.
That's my story.
Did you know that NCSs and EMGs were invented by the Nazis during the Second World War to torture people who they thought were not worth living? The aim of these procedures were to torture and finally kill people.
I am sure most doctors doing these procedures don't know about their origin.
I have created a support group for people who suffer after NCSs and EMGs, and my support group has more than 500 members.
We will raise our voice until finally no doctor will ever do another NCS and EMG.
Join us in our effort to fight against these means of torture, because this is the worst torture you can inflict on a human being.

[Maria Smith]

i'm really nervous about mine which will be on Friday, June 5th
is it really that bad???
I am a 16 year old adolescent who has been to every dr known to man and monkey as well as every blood test, MRI, X-ray, and still, no one knows what's wrong with me. I've been at physical therapy for 2 years now nonstop.
was anything pleasant???
any advice as to try to tolerate it better???

[Allison]

Hi, Maria,

it really is bad, and there is nothing you can do to lessen the pain. Both procedures are equally painful. The main thing is that you do exactly what the doctors tell you, then the prodcedure might be more quickly over.
But it is agony! When you have survived it you can be sure there will be nothing more terrible in the remaining years of your life. It is the worst that can happen to you.
It is long agony, it lasts for about 2 hours (one hour for each procedure). Have someone with you to drive you home, go to bed when you are at home and be prepared to stay in bed for about two weeks. Your body will be very sore for about 2 to 3 weeks.
Good luck and tell us how things went for you.

[badgerbag]

So, interesting discussion here! I want to check back in and say that I had a very, very short EMG on my right arm at the ALS clinic at UCSF, and it was scary because of the earlier one that was so horrible, BUT.... it was like 10 minutes and was not that painful. So I can really see that for some people it is awful and for some people it isn't. (and maybe in the same person, for different body parts it's different.)

Two years later, my right leg still aches very badly in a way that it didn't before the EMG/nerve conduction stuff. The pain is centered in the spot on the outside of my leg, just below my knee and then towards the outside - then radiating down. It's especially sensitive to cold and is almost always so cold that it hurts (or, any sensation like a light breeze *feels* like painful cold and aching.) And, I still think of that hour long session as torture. I'm damn sure there's worse torture but it's some of the worst I've experienced.

I keep a large woolly sock with the toe cut off on that part of my leg to try and keep it warm and sometimes long underwear, and occasionally the Icy Hot heating packs. My leg is functioning a lot better.

I recommend that if something is incredibly painful in the way people are describing here, that you stop the test. It is optional. You don't have to cooperate with it. It's your choice. If it's that painful, stop! And, make sure you ahve it clear, what is the point of doing the test? Is it a crucial diagnostic decision and if so, how would your ACTUAL TREATMENT change with this extra knowledge? Because if the result is "now we know your diagnosis" but "and we continue on as usual" then what's the point.

If one body part is especially painful, might it be possible to stop and try another? Or, as the neurologists who did this procedure on me said afterwards, take some painkiller and valium or whatever, which helps with pain but would not change the electrical impulses or whatever that they're measuring?

Good luck to all in this thread!!!

[Inken]

Badgerbag,

you are right, we as patients needn't co-operate, and we should stop the test if it is too painful. But how can you stop the test when the doctor or the medical assistant just goes on and on?
When I had my NCS and EMG a year ago, I implored the lady doing the nerve conducting stuff to stop, I begged her, I yelled at her, I asked her ever so kindly, I screamed, there was nothing that would make her stop. I tried to pull the electrodes off myself, but I couldn't, so I just lay there, unable to do anything, with tears streaming down my face, sobbing and begging.
You can't do anything.
Before the doctor came with the needles I tried to get off the bed, but I couldn't move my legs, they were paralysed! I asked the doctor not to do the needle bit, but he just laughed and said it would be over in a few minutes. But he poked in more than 70 needles and it took more than 45 minutes, and I was almost unconscious when he finished. My legs and arms hurt so bad that I couldn't even scream, I was too exhausted, I clenched my teeth, I pushed my fingernails into my palms until they were bleeding. Then I realized my tongue hurt so much and I found out that I had bitten off the top bit of it without even noticing it. when the doctor came in to give me the results I showed him my tongue and told him I couldn't move my legs. He said: Come on now, stop crying, even children can stand these procedures without a whimper, pull yourself together.
I know of a girl of 6 who cried her head off during the NCS and EMG. She is 8 now, and since the procedures she hasn't left her room at home. She won't even go into another room, she can't stand seeing anybody besides her mum and dad and her dog. She can no longer go to school, she is traumatised for life.
I am traumatised for life as well. My legs are almost useless now, so are my arms. The pain is still excruciating. My legs were covered with bruises and wounds for more than 6 months. I had a high temperature for several weeks after the procedure I suppose the needles were not sterile.
You are not right when you say there are worse tortures than NCS and EMG. There aren't! It is the most horrid, the most abominable thing that can be done to a person! There is nothing that is worse.
We should all stand up, write to neurologists all over the world, tell our experiences and ask them not to do EMGs and NCSs. They are useless and they ruin a patient's life forever.
We simply must do something! Especially young doctors must be told that there are other means of finding out what is wrong with a person's nerves.

To all neurologists:
PLEASE, NEVER DO THESE PROCEDURES AGAIN!
From the bottom of my heart I implore you, STOP these abominable procedures!

[badgerbag]

Dear lnken: Well, that sounds super horrible! I'm very sorry you suffered and are suffering still.

To anyone reading this, I recommend that if you have doubts about a medical test or procedure, bring someone with you to the appointment who will be your advocate. They can help you stand up for your right to ask questions, to know what's happening, to stop a procedure, and to leave if you need to.

And, I do have to repeat, I had the same test (with different neurologists) in my arms and it wasn't bad. While in my leg that's already in a lot of pain, it was agony. So, I have seen directly for myself that it can be fairly trivial, like a shot -- OR -- it can be quite painful!

[Inken]

Dear Badgerbag,
that is a good idea to bring someone with you to the appointment.
Are other people allowed to enter the room where the procedures take place?
I thought only parents of small children were allowed to.
I think when you have NCS and EMG done on a part of your body that is already in pain before the procedure it will hurt especially.
Gog bless all people who have to undergo these procedures.

[Maria Smith]

Hi again, is the general overall people tested in extreme pain or are there some people who weren't in such bad tolerances???

has anyone here have a really good pain tolerance and not feel it as much???

does anyone have a definite feeling that the NCS or EMG were not as painful???

What type of clinics have anyone here been to???

I'm getting so tense, but has anyone walked into the testing room and was calm and cool before the start of the test??? Was it helpful???

[Maria Smith]

Have the doctors conducting the NCS and EMG tests thought of restraints?????? Just a thought
has anyone experienced this situation???
If the patient would be extremely non-cooperative with the test, would they take this action???
Example: a young child were to recieve an EMG and NCS and were very fidgety and screaming, would they do this???

[Mandy]

Of course doctors and medical assistants take this action. They do it all the time, especially with children.
They apply fixed wrist and ankle restraints and some other restraints across the body.Do you think any child of any age would be quiet just letting the doctor torture him/her?
Most adults are also given restraints, the restraints are fixed to any bed on which a NCS and EMG test is done. So in case the patient is fidgety these restraints are applied. Of course this is mayhem, and if a patient says he can no longer stand the pain, the doctor should (legally speaking) stop the test at once. But in most cases this isn't done. The assistant or the doctor will tell you: We're almost done (and the test still goes on for another 60 minutes)or: this is the last needle (and there are 40 or 50 more to come).
The assistants are worse than the doctors. They must comply with their doctor's wishes, namely to provide him with good results of the test. So when a patient has nerve damage, his nerves will not respond to the electric stimulations. So they apply stronger and stronger current (you can manipulate the machine to give more than the normal 100mA), and very often the shocks become so strong that they permanently injure your arms, legs etc.
When the shocks are strong, your whole body moves and jumps up and down, and to prevent you from falling off the bed restraints are used.

So before the test starts you should present a written document telling the doctor you don't want to have restraints and you want the tests to be stopped as soon as you say so. Then you ask the doctor to sign the document. If he refuses to sign it, then you know he or his assistants will apply restraints and go on doing the tests even if you implore them to stop.

I have four children, but all the pain of these four births taken together are absolutely nothig in comparison to the pain during EMG and NCS. I was fixed to the bed from the very beginning, and I could do nothing to make the assistant and the doctor stop the test.
I reported the doctor and tried to sue him, but it was completely useless. You know, there is honor among thieves.
I would rather jump down from a 50storey building than have another NCS and EMG.

Are you sure a NCS and EMG is really necessary for you? In most cases these tests are completely useless.
I will pray for you. I hope your arms, legs etc. will not receive permanent injury.

[Maria Smith]

yes, aparently it is necessary. I've been to so many doctors over the past 3-4 years and still have an undiscovered issue. It's so annoying and I'm going to physical therapy 2X a week now for 11 months straight and have a really long time to go beyond unfortunately. We're trying to figure out why my muscles are so weak and screwed up. I also have a huge issue with hypermobility where my joints can dislocate, but then pop back in. We don't know what the cause of this is and I've already had just about every test and seen every specialist there is here on this plannet. I guess that for this reason I have to go in for the test.
Did and do you have a definite feeling that one over the other was worse? the NCS or the EMG.
Which was harder on your body???a definite feeling that the NCS or EMG were not as painful???

[kate]

Hi, Maria,

I wish you good luck on Friday!
I had EMG and NCS 5 months ago, and it was plain horror. I found the electric shocks were worse than the needles, though the needles also caused excruciable pain. But that pain is 'normal' pain, whilst the electric shocks are painful and just undescribably horrid. The first shocks are not that bad, but when they increase the current it is really bad.
My nerves are damaged, and so they had to apply the maximum stimulaton. If your nerves are not badly damaged they will only apply a much weaker stimulation, which won't probably be so horrid.
The needles are worst when you are asked to flex or move the muscle.
Anyhow, take it easy for a few days after the tests. You should stay in bed for a day or two.
Kate

[Maria Smith]

Hi everyone! Today at my test I did really well. I have an extremely high pain tolerance which led me to not really getting bothered during it. I did't like the NCS though because I didn't know which muscles my doctor was puttng in the needles, but didn't flinch at all whild I was going through the testing. My nurse who did the ECT was ok. While she was working on me I was totally relaxed and didn't really care about what was going on; after all, I had my testing done @ 7:00am, which really sucked. She told me taht with all of her patients including the three men whom she worked with on Thursday were crying and just dying of the pain. I was really surprised with all the reports I heard on this posting line. I am so glad though that the tension of going to the test is now over. The really annoying part though is that I got extremely odd testing results and the doctor who looked at my EMG test results and while he was doing his portion of the NCS was astounded at what he saw. He told me that I had probably one of the most strange results whild looking and performing the testing, leading him into the factor that now I need a muscle biopsy. I'm really creeped out about this one because this one will really hurt and I will have anesthesia though, but am still nervous. I haven't gotten the date I need to do this by, leeding me into the feeling of uneasiness.
Has anyone here had a muscle biopsy???

[kate]

Hi, Maria,

I am very glad you got through the tests so well. You really must have a high pain tolerance! Congratulations.
How are you now? What side effects did the procedures have? Are you still in pain? Have you got bruises, are you very sore? Can you walk normally? Can you use your hands and arms normally?
If you have no lasting side effects you are really lucky!
The annoying thing is of course that your results were so strange.
Which doctor did you go to? Are you sure he is competent? Perhaps the machine wasn't working properly? One of my friends had a surface EMG done, and the results were strange. so he went to another neurologist, and there he had normal results.
Before having a muscle biopsy done (mind you, this is real surgery with much more severe side effects than the NCS and EMG procedures)you should see another neurologist and have him have a look at the results. Go and get a second opinion before rushing into surgery.
Best wishes.
Kate

[kate]

Maria,

here's some information about muscle biopsy.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/MEDLINEPLUS/ency/article/003924.htm
It says:
A muscle that has recently been injured such as by an EMG needle, or is affected by pre-existing condition such as nerve compression, is not a good choice for a biopsy.

so you have to wait a few weeks or even months until the muscles which were injured by the EMG needle have healed.
How are you today?
Kate

[Maria Smith]

I'm doing well, there were no obvious side effects. The pain was really annoying for the day of and the day after, but i rested and then went back into my usual crazy swinging life. As for bruises, I have none, I can walk as best as I usually can, which isn't very well, so that isn't a really big surprise. I went to a good doctor who's a competent neurologist in New York. Although there were odd results, they were expected to be not the average result. I've seen about 3-4 different neurologists, but all results have been exhibited.
I'm not really concerened about the fact that I need to have a muscle biopsy. I am also not really concerend about the procedure, I know that it is a much more serious procedure. I'm ok with it and am now calm. The test isn't really concerning me, causing my nerves to shatter. As far as the EMG needles, they have not injured me and are not even very visible anymore and are the size of tiny freckles.
I'm very content with the results leading to this test so that I can be one more step forward in eliminating and hopefully finding out what is wrong with me.

[kate]

Maria,

you are surely an extraordinary human being! I admire you from the bottom of my heart.
So you only had pain on the day of the tests and the day after? You have no pain now, two days later? You have only tiny freckles from the EMG needles? Your arms and legs are not vibrating with pain after the electric shocks?
This is so unbelievable!
You can go on with your usual crazy swinging life two days after having undergone a NCS and an EMG? you are not lying in bed any more?
You are simply marvellous.
I have spoken to so many other people who have undergone these procedures, and like myself they are all still suffering from the horrid side effects of these tests. Can you really move your arms and legs as you could before the tests? Your doctor must be able to do miracles. Who is he?
I hope you will soon know what is the matter with you and you will be able to get help-
You deserve it!
Kate

[PALLINE]

WOW, AFTER MY EMG EXPERIENCE YESTERDAY, I DIDN'T THINK IT COULD POSSIBLY GET WORSE. BUT FOR MOST OF YOU IT ACTUALLY WAS!!

I DID MANAGE TO GET THEM TO STOP WHEN I JUST COULDN'T TAKE ANYMORE, (THE DOCTOR LEFT IN A HUFF, BUT SHE DID STOP) I ASKED FOR A TRAUMA COUNSELOR AFTERWARDS AND THEY LAUGHED. TODAY I AM ACHY BUT NOT MUCH WORSE THAN MY USUAL LEVEL OF DYSFUNCTION.

I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE MEDICAL PROFESSION MANAGES TO GET AWAY WITH USING A PROCEDURE THAT IS SO EXCRUCIATING , EVEN IF ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PATIENTS EXPERIENCE OVERWHELMING PAIN, FOR US IT IS VERY, VERY BAD!!.

THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY!

[Jenni]

My son has been badly hurt with an EMG needle, the Neuro put it in way too deep and now everyone's too busy covering his @$$ instead of helping my son get better. He can no longer walk because it went way too deep in the seratus anterior...One the the Neuro's says it's "psychological" and i think it's just to discredit DS so that he can't try to sue.

I just want him to be fixed somehow...if anyone else has information on articles after an EMG Please please PLEASE Get in touch with me:
or email them or links:
[email protected]

Thank you,
Jenni B